ExamScam II? Investigate Please
We've been going over a few of our threads and a lot of the comments regarding the recently announced class of new detectives. Comments seem to be divided into two camps (well, three maybe).
Camp A, to which we belong, notices that something seems odd. We have a rudimentary grasp of probability and finite mathematics and are reasonably well educated. We make an effort to be trained observers; we are aware of the city's propensity to interpret rules to suit themselves; the history of political favoritism; the fact that trusting the city's version of events ALWAYS results in bad outcomes. All we want is an open and fair explanation of the results; open up the curtains and let the light shine in.
Camp B insists everything is fine, there was no cheating, everything the city does is on the up and up. And they could be correct. We never said there was cheating and at the moment, there is no (admissible) evidence that any cheating took place. The exam was probably administered completely within the bounds of the contract the testing firm had with the city. The city would never play fast and loose with an exam, would they?
Camp C says 016, 008, and TRU suck, so we think we can disregard their input at this time.
We have called for an independent investigation as to the statistical possibility and improbability of an obvious cluster of loosely connected people all scoring so well as to be promoted in the first class. The fact that some of these people have so little time on the job is another red flag in that so many recent exams have been "front loaded" with higher seniority officers. Where did they all go?
QUESTION: If you had the opportunity to sit down with, oh we don't know, a Federal Hiring Monitor or someone similar, how would you change the testing process? How would you evaluate "merit" as the basis for promotion? What keys things would you look for if you were going to be initiating an investigation? We're just curious.
Camp A, to which we belong, notices that something seems odd. We have a rudimentary grasp of probability and finite mathematics and are reasonably well educated. We make an effort to be trained observers; we are aware of the city's propensity to interpret rules to suit themselves; the history of political favoritism; the fact that trusting the city's version of events ALWAYS results in bad outcomes. All we want is an open and fair explanation of the results; open up the curtains and let the light shine in.
Camp B insists everything is fine, there was no cheating, everything the city does is on the up and up. And they could be correct. We never said there was cheating and at the moment, there is no (admissible) evidence that any cheating took place. The exam was probably administered completely within the bounds of the contract the testing firm had with the city. The city would never play fast and loose with an exam, would they?
Camp C says 016, 008, and TRU suck, so we think we can disregard their input at this time.
We have called for an independent investigation as to the statistical possibility and improbability of an obvious cluster of loosely connected people all scoring so well as to be promoted in the first class. The fact that some of these people have so little time on the job is another red flag in that so many recent exams have been "front loaded" with higher seniority officers. Where did they all go?
QUESTION: If you had the opportunity to sit down with, oh we don't know, a Federal Hiring Monitor or someone similar, how would you change the testing process? How would you evaluate "merit" as the basis for promotion? What keys things would you look for if you were going to be initiating an investigation? We're just curious.
posted by SCC at 10:45 AM
88 Comments:
Get rid of all testing.
Have the test drawn up distantly, and wholly insulated from the CPD. Give the testing company a copy of our GOs, the ILCS etc., and then get the subject matter ideas by looking at tests administered by LA and NYPD.
Have a monitored third party administer the test over the internet, the same way some standardizes tests are now. Give the scores back 10 minutes after the test is done.
And maintain a chain of custody log for the test from the time that questions are first considered.
Oh, and make every current member at that rank retake the test, but only for informational purposes. As in, after 5 or 10 years of being a sergeant or detective, how well do you do on a test to become a sergeant or detective. That should be funny. And informative.
Test results as you walk out the door. Also, a set aside for "true" liberals. after Shady and I are made that portion of the set aside would be eliminated.
Finally, Merry Christmas to all! And as a present, no Bush bashing or raising the ire of Republican backers(until the 26th).
Peace on earth, good will toward all.
I've posted this once before regarding Police Exams........I received the results from the SGT EXAM...my name, my ssan, my Star #, my employee #,,,send to my home address.....
and I NEVER took the test, NEVER signed up to take the test.....so much for the test!!!!
Sounds like the moderator(s) feels they got the shaft. That little green monster will eat you up.
Does the city have to abide by the Amereicans With Disabilities Act when they give these promotional exams?
Anonymous said...
Have the test drawn up distantly, and wholly insulated from the CPD. Give the testing company a copy of our GOs, the ILCS etc., and then get the subject matter ideas by looking at tests administered by LA and NYPD.
The city tried doing something on par with what you're saying in 1993 with the lieutenant's and sergeant's test. Arthur Anderson (before they lost their reputation with ENRON) administered the test under the tightest controls.
The result? A political bomb for mayor daley when minorities did not do well. The first sergeants class from that test had a handful of miniorities. Not a good thing for the King.
Answer: They did not make the traditional number of promotions and struck the list after three classes each. Then some lightbulb in the administration came up with merit promotions for supervisors.
Merit promotions are OK, but in my humble opinion, only one bite of the merit apple per person please.
Although there will probably always be a subjective oral portion of the exam, a way to get morale up and prove that any future test is legit would be to score the written portion (and don't make it pass/fail) as you're leaving the test site as they did dicks years ago.
But this is Chicago, and that ain't gonna happen in Daley's lifetime, if anyone's.
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays
While I agree there is some "funny business" that goes along with the tests, making people in grade retake the test is an absolutly stupid idea. How much money and time would that waist ! That comment must be from someone that never studies and then complains when he doesn't score well !
One bite? You mean Art Para ("merit" sergeant, "merit" lieutenant, "merit" captian) and Sal Avila ("merit" sergeant, "merit" lieutenant, commander, all within 6 years) would both be stuck back in the ranks? What a revolutionary idea!
Sorry this is off subject but saw on the news this morning a appeals court has overturned the sentence of James Camp's killer. They'll probably re-sentence him to some SWAP or some bullshit. Nice news for his family in time for Christmas, huh?
Stupid idea? A little threatening perhaps. How much extra would that cost, $100.00 for the paper?
It would let them dispel rumors if those promoted and in rank could actually show how qualified they are on an objective written test for the positions they already hold. Except, as you and I both know, a good number of those actually doing the job would not be qualified objectively to do the job.
A little threatening, huh?
I'll say it again. Stupid idea !!
City tries to void Shakman
Mayor Richard Daley's administration renewed its efforts Friday to void long-standing federal court restrictions on political hiring.The move to overturn the 1983 Shakman decree comes despite Daley's assertions that he wants to keep city hiring free of politics.
The mayor promised to reform hiring earlier this year, after federal prosecutors accused city officials of rigging the personnel process to reward connected applicants with jobs and promotions.
The city filed its motion to void the decree Friday "to leave our legal options open," said Jennifer Hoyle, a spokeswoman for the city's Law Department.Michael Shakman, the attorney who successfully sued to restrict City Hall patronage, criticized the move.
By making the court filing on the last business day before Christmas, Shakman said, the city was attempting to minimize publicity."Nobody is reading the newspaper" on Christmas Eve, Shakman said. "They don't like to admit what they're doing."It's just part of the effort on one hand to say they're all in favor of patronage reform and on the other hand to kill the legal basis for reform."
Hoyle denied that the city was trying to downplay its actions. She noted that Daley's top lawyer, Mara Georges, previously said the administration would persist in challenging the Shakman decree because it needs more freedom to streamline the hiring process.
Daley has been trying to eliminate the decree since 2002. That effort gained momentum in October, when a federal appeals court ordered a lower-court judge to reconsider whether Shakman, a former political candidate, had legal standing to bring the case.Shakman responded by recruiting six current and former city workers as new plaintiffs.
The workers allege that their careers with the city suffered because they lacked ties to pro-Daley political organizations.U.S. District Judge Wayne Andersen has urged Shakman and the city to compromise. "There's a fair amount of common ground," Andersen said at a hearing Thursday.
Hoyle said the Daley administration plans to continue discussions aimed at a settlement of the Shakman case.Because of the Shakman case, the city currently is prohibited from letting politics affect hiring, firing and promotions for all but about 1,100 of the city's 35,800 jobs.
Two high-ranking city officials have admitted participating in the hiring fraud, which was aimed at circumventing the Shakman decree
Hey, I understand some of you are upset about the test results. But remember the vast majority of people who did well on the test did it on hard work and dedication. Like me, I have never had any clout, never sucked up to some boss and dont owe anybody shit for scoring well. I have been a grunt for 10 years and now I get chance to get promoted and you guys are trying to fuck it up. The city is always going to have there yes men... Just let me get in there and be the NO man before you fuck the list up and let the city get more yes men in there.
Signed,
The guy who's gonna get your balls out of the fire when you fuck up.
Did anyone see Syriana yet? In the movie, Tim Blake Nelson's character has an interesting monologue. Essentially, he stated corruption is what makes any form of government work. I think this is especially true in a city like Chicago where corrpution seems to be the status quo. It's going to be hard to control the corruption that goes into any testing for the department. Getting an accounting firm to administer the test may curb it a little. I think the new generation of coppers that come on might have a better chance of "reforming" the existing system. But I don't see that happening for a while.
I understand the gripes about the city testing. But anything that is implemented will be for the next test.The lawsuits will be flying if the were to take a test down this quick including mine I'm in the 120's studied and took a prep class I didnt have any help I worked harder after seeing people get promoted that I thought I could do better than. But one merit promotion a career is a good idea. But then they could just promote someone from Gang investigator to commander or P.O. to dep chief. anyway those of us that played by the rules and did well because of hard work should not get screwed.
I'll say it again, a little threatening, huh?
Here is how I would change the testing process. I would ensure that Maurer never has anything to do with CPD test development ever again. All it would take is a fair investigation into the incredible performance of his personal staff members (consistently scoring #1) and friends on promotional exams, when he had access to the entire exam content. And I will say it - I believe that he should be indicted for these actions! If he gave away answers, he took promotions away from others who worked hard and studied hard, and who believed that the system was fair. You are naive if you are fooled by the Patton persona and all of the phony awards he prominently wore. No one can deny these facts, either. Did he have the unbelievable talent of picking only geniuses for his staff? I think not, and I think it can be easily proven.
Check out the "osama captured" pictures, go to your search engine type it in check it out!
Why do you need to carry when retired. Those A.S.A's can't carry and they put more people in prison then 5 cops. Is it just cause your scared. Are you gonna play police? H.R. 218 was wrong.
We[CFD] have just been presented with the most outrageous racist Battalion Chief promotion list that there ever was. How do we contact Noelle Brennan for some advise?
Keep up the good work with this site.
Chris Hitney...can I please have a photo of you and the Southwest airline jet?? I didn't get one. Thanks! Oh...by the way..nice going your professionalism makes us look great!
You can have all the independent monitors, accounting firms etc... oversee and proctor the testing. Untill the city (CPD) is taken out of writing the actual test that will be given there will be compromises. I'm sure there are some firms out there in the country that put together tests for police departments. On friday the City of Chicago filed a motion to void the Shakman Decree. This speaks volumes. The city w/ all the Fed's running around are STILL trying to get rifd of Shakman.
Have the test drawn up by an independent firm with transparent safeguards employed in-house. Send to this firm either a list of possible questions, or a list of statutes and general orders with instructions as to what form of questions are to be drawn from any of these statutes or general orders. Provide the same information to ALL interested test takers. Although voluminous, this information could easily be made available on the intra/internet. Or in cd form at the time of application pick-up. If the department believes that it could not offer enough possible random choices for the firm and have the test not be predictable by publishing the same info to the applicants, include an added basic cognitive and problem solving section (a la LSAT's or GMAT). There are no ways to cheat on such questions (except practice or knowledge of the exact question). Essentially, this would render knowing the Chief of Patrol or anyone else useless for test taking. We would all be on the same field.
SCC... You hit the nail on the head. This list and the whole promotional process needs an investigation. It is terrible that the city has infected the merit process with some of the worst possible choices. But the morale of the current hard working officers who play by the rules begs that an independent investigation be completed to see if the testing or grading process has been comprimised. Noelle Brennan has an office already set up, and would be the logical choice. Merry Christmas!!
I like the ideas by 2:50, particularly with respect to providing EVERYONE with the same info that is provided to the testing firm when they draw up the test. This is, in fact, an innovative and amazingly good idea.
Regarding the LSAT and GMAT, I've taken both and excelled (top 2%) on both. I'm at attorney.
I gamed both tests, though anyone with sufficient motivation should be able to do the same. For the LSAT, the problem solving can always be boiled down to the same 6 or 7 generic scenarios. 7 people on a merry go round, 7 people sitting around a circular table, 7 people in a circle of friends, etc. If you study enough of the old tests, you should be able to instantly recognize a pattern when given, and then identify the right method of solving the pattern.
The GMAT was even more fun. I was terribly unmotivated in high school, and pretty much bombed algebra and geometry. By the time I took the GMAT though, I was... let's just say a bit more familiar with high school algebra and geometry. Turns out in studying that the ENTIRE math portion of this graduate school test related DIRECTLY to what people *should* have learned in high school.
Don't get me wrong, I studied diligently and that contributed to my results. At the end of the day, my GMAT math score is described in the testing corp's own materials as "rare".
Nothing wrong with making it a component for a promotional exam, particularly the pattern solving stuff as it relates to a detectives exam and the logical reasoning stuff as it relates to supervisory roles (where, e.g., supervisors are expected to know a hierarchy of orders, rules, laws etc...).
Anyway, good thinking sir!
I would suggest using the miltary's promotional process and plugging in CPD categories to promote....many things are considered for promotion and clout is not one of them!!!!!
full story
Sat, Dec. 24, 2005
Officer-turned-author takes lesson from Chicago streets
Juan Antonio Juarez saw brutality, inequality while working in narcotics division
By CLARISSA ALJENTERA
Herald Staff Writer
Juan Antonio Juarez's current life as a stay-at-home dad, teacher and writer is a big contrast to his career as a narcotics officer for the Chicago Police Department in the 1990s.
Back then, he was chasing gang members and drug dealers. These days he is accompanying his toddler son, Henry, to play dates and teaching English as a Second Language.
Juarez spent seven years with the Chicago Police Department and wrote about his experiences as a narcotics officer in his book "Brotherhood of Corruption" in 2004.
I've posted this once before regarding Police Exams........I received the results from the SGT EXAM...my name, my ssan, my Star #, my employee #,,,send to my home address.....
and I NEVER took the test, NEVER signed up to take the test.....so much for the test!!!!
-----------------------------------
So how well did you do?
How well did you do? If someone had signed you up without your knowledge, then you would have come in dead last. Did you?
Juan Antonio Juarez is a piece of lying shit.. So is his wife beating cowardly father who just retired within the past few months from 023.
God bless America; you can act like a piece of garbage on this job – get fired for pissing hot (I’m sure he’s still doing dope) and write a book about all of it and make money.
I feel sorry for his son. . . he’s probably molesting him. I read his book and he himself was a victim of sexual abuse… part of his sick culture.
Here's some holiday reading for you. Transcripts of the last several promotion suits brought against the tests.
Here's the link
I would like to see that your efforts studying GO's aren't waisted on Pass/Fail. Points for the GO portion should be added to the subjective part.
The result? A political bomb for mayor daley when minorities did not do well. The first sergeants class from that test had a handful of miniorities. Not a good thing for the King.
WELL STOP THE PLANET , THEN!
Anonymous said...
Here is how I would change the testing process. I would ensure that Maurer never has anything to do with CPD test development ever again. All it would take is a fair investigation into the incredible performance of his personal staff members (consistently scoring #1) and friends on promotional exams, when he had access to the
It's not just Mauer. It's all of them. They make the test! They develop the answers! Then they "seal" and give it to E&Y or who ever. Simple.
For those of you who know an old timer who works in the 'D' unit ask them when the last legitimate test was given. They will tell you the 1979 exam. You got the results and your score previous to waling out the door of the test site.
As for the Maurer thing, it is no coincidence that the teo sergeants working for him both ended up running TRU. Now one is the head of the marine unit.
I know it is off topic but,
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU. God bless all of the Police and keep us safe. I give thanks to be here for my children. If you do not celebrate christmas then happy Holidays for whatever you celebrate. I hope 2006 brings happiness for all.
Now one is the head of the marine unit.
12/25/2005 12:03:56 AM
That guy is the sister of the head of the Corp Counsel's office, Georgas. Same name even. I don't think Mauer even had to ask for that one, it was a given!
Would you rather be Commander of a District working 12 hour days with no overtime and doing nothing but wiping the asses of Aldermen all day, or would you rather have less actual work than the guys who "guard" the water plant yet still only work a few hours a day and make six figures? No brainer.
He'll be a Deputy or some such shit before he approaches age 50. Anyone want to bet on that?
Merry Christmas, and happy Hanukkah brothers and sisters of blue. Please put this to rest. It can be hard to accept what we see as unfair or political when we we feel we have done well, and have not achieved a goal. Yes, there is absolutely no doubt that merit on this job means clout, and for most of the meritorious, if not all (You can all name them.) have never done a lick of police work, and they are the ones who get promoted.
That fact will never go away...under any political atmosphere. These are generations of police families taking care of their own...as any of us would do.
What we have to remember is first our duties are to serve people calling for our help, when they cannot help themselves, AND THEY HOPE WE SHOW UP PRETTY DARN FAST.
Secondly, always remember this; The clout ridden, and the spoiled ones, who will never understand you, will in no way retire, look back and know that they were the real police, the sacrafices you and your families have made, the tears that you have secretly cried, THE F@$^ING BAD GUYS YOU HAVE PUT AWAY, or simlpy recieved a dog bone when it was really deserved. They know who they are, and you know who you are, its that simple. You are The Police, and this can not be taken away.
Tomorrow, when you answer the radio, and show up to the job, do your best, and know that when you walk away from that job, you did the right thing.
God bless all of you, especially 011, you know why you all have done so well.
Back each other up! Be happy for each other, be happy for who YOU ALL ARE; The Real Police.
THEY can never take that away!!!!
12:32, in a more perfect world, I think being a district commander is the ideal job for those with motivation to achieve and make a difference.
Its the police position most comparable to being a military company commander, which is as far as I've ever heard the job that combat officers look back on most favorably.
Give me 300 officers and a busy district, plus the ability to call in "artillery" or "air support" or "special operations" or "psychological operations" etc. I'd do my best to be responsive to the community, to identify and address EVERY pattern, to ensure that intelligence is gathered on all the problems in the district.
I'd put 2 or 3 officers out of neighborhood relations and into a "scout" unit. Tell them that their job is to eyeball every corner of the district and identify who is where... all away from the radio. I'd try and make sure my people received THE BEST training on modern tactics and technology.
You name it. Basically, for those who like a challenge, I think d/c is it. Unfortunately, this department ignores basically all of the characteristics I've listed and which they should be looking for. Instead, the d/c position is most often political. The only exceptions are 001, 009 and 018, where its political combined (usually) with ability-driven.
Anyway, if I was lazy I'd want marine. But if I wanted to actually try and make a difference, I'd go d/c all the way. I wouldn't get caught up in all of the details, but I'd work friday and saturday nights in the summer. I'd hold people accountable for identifying and addressing problems. I'd try and ensure people all had clear understanding of my expectations.
I've gone on too long here. All I'm saying is, its as close as you could get to being a company commander. And if the jagoffs they tend to put in these positions had one ounce of motivation, they'd try and do something while in these positions.
I work in 011 and have no clout and scored well because I studied! Most of Tact and Gang from 011 are in the top 500 because they studied! There are alot of crying bitches out there! Get over it!
Ya they studied. They studied the answers they were given by the dick heads who made up the test. I'm oh so jealous.
the reasons why Minorities dis=dnt do well on the 1993 Sgt test was that for 20 years previous, minorities were hired over more qualified whites
When a test was given where minorities had to stand on their test scores alnoe, they had horrible results ( five in the first class of one hundred twenty six)
Its sort of like planting weeds in your garden and then beefing when there are no tomatoes
I will not venture into the lower test scores for reading comprehension in predominately minority high schools but I believe that they are there if one looks for them.
The promotional exams are ostensibly about reading comprehension and in that area when there is no race-norming the results are there.
That is what gave birth to the merit system
To 11:20
Your post stated the following:
*It\'s not just Mauer. It\'s all of them. They make the test! They develop the answers! Then they \"seal\" and give it to E&Y or who ever. Simple.*
Here is how it works. Dr. Mort McPhail of Jeanneret and Associates (Maurer�s buddy) develops the promo exams based on input from Subject Matter Experts (SMEs), and Senior Subject Matter Experts (SSMEs). Senior Subject Matter Experts have access to all of the test content, as they review it all for correctness. Maurer was an SSME for many of the recent promo exams, and it is therefore no surprise that his close pals all did very well on these exams. As stated before, he had the #1 candidate for Lt. (Kennedy) and the #1 candidate for Sgt. (Hannigan) on his personal staff, and no one can deny that. Sgt. Lisa Mann (another staff member) was promoted to Detective AND then to Sgt. within months. Also every member of Kennedy�s study group (Georgas included) did VERY WELL on the Lt. exam, with all of them being promoted to Lt. already. Some of them are now exempt. Do YOU think that there was sharing of information?
I think Maurer should be behind bars if it can be proven that he gave away answers or study information, as he betrayed those who had faith that the system was fair and equitable.
Ernst and Young administer the test, but they do not develop it or have input into test content.
And to 12:32
I don�t know if Georgas and his brother (Sgt. Spiro Georgas) are related to Mara Georges (Daley�s aide) or not, but they do spell the last name differently.
That's right, they are not related and have different spellings of their last names. But don't let that stop you. Feel free to make up facts regarding family relationships or any other relationship as necessary. Then repeat it as the truth because you made it up. Once two people repeat it, it must be true. Never let the truth get in the way of a good rumour or your bellyaching. Bunch of little bitches on this job. Good men are dying for our country on the other side of the world and all you fuckers can do is whine about what you are entitled too. It makes me sick.
Merry Fucking Christmas.
True Dat!
But ExamScam II STILL happened and clout babies STILL prosper!
Fucking dishonest cowards!
You know who you are!
In July of 1984, the district court ruled in favor of the minority plaintiffs, concluding that the test "fails to measure relevant job functions," and that and ordered that future promotions to lieutenant be made "in accordance with the ratios of the applicant pool: 78.63% white, 17.7% black, and 3.58% hispanic."
HAHHAAAH What about qualified applicants??
Why is it that the entrance and promotional lists are published in the New York city papers. The city cops in New York objected because they feared reprissal when awaiting the results of the 1998 Firefighters exam. Five former police officers, including 3 former NYPD sergeants died on 11 Sept disaster as NY firefighters.
If New York can post the list of the first top thousand candidates for the police and fire departments promotional exams why doesnt the city?
The LAPD promtional exams are scored via a computer, as well as the exams in Boston and Dallas.
This info is always available via any department in house computer.
This way we could Identify the merits immediately. Why doesnt know Balls Mark Donahue publish the sergeants and dicks list in the FOP news letter.
The 011 district detective list is were fantasy became reality. Screw Devine and the patronage hacks. I hope every dick that has to train one of those mopes refuses.
Keep the faith several of us non merit sgts and p/os are together hoping to drop a new lawsuit against any merit hiring hopefully by March. Thank you to every one who has risked every thing identifying the merit hacks. We must give Mr. Daley, Mr. Kline, Ballless Dick Devine, LAPA, Stroger,Carrouthers,Burke & Madigan and all the other political patronage cops a good fight in 2006. Remember each alderman gets one spot on every promotion. The merit application is hand carried to Kline, before that it was always the first deputy, who marked off who would be promoted meritrously by the "EDUCATION COMMITTEE."
We are going to identify the bosses who made their girl friends and some other dirty little secrets, about some of the Masons amoung us. Enough is Enough, the Crusades are beginning.
We ask for your prayers.
THANK YOU SCC
THE UNDERGROUND
First Sgts test that I took in the early 70's (I'm still a patrolman)they put up a list at 11th and state a couple of weeks after the test and taped it to the window.All you had to do was walk into the lobby and find your name,you knew right away what your numerical standing was.And I agree the 1979 Dicks test was the last of the legitimate tests,you got your score right away.It's all been downhill since then and unless you can hit Daley real hard in the pocketbook it'll stay corrupt.
Merry Christmas to all,and be SAFE out there.
Juan Juarez, used to be in 014..Total lying piece-of-shit according to all who knew him. Barely had a few years on when he made Tact/Gangs.He then performed fellatio to get to Narcotics.
Now he's an author/professor..about as liberal as they come! He would defend a gang-banging killer before standing up for a copper!!
I don't think there is as much corruption in the last dicks test as everyone makes out to be. BUT, this is Chicago and people always find a way.
I'm not one for lawsuits, but maybe a Federal suit would have merit if it could only take the entire process out of the hands of the city. As long as a clout heavy city such as ours administers its' own tests, there will be those on the inside who will help out their friends.
Daley could do this if he wanted to, but it's not a political option to him. Remember what he did in 1993? He had egg on his face when minorities failed to do well as a group.
Maybe some smart people can band together and make a go of it, I don't know. But if it was done right, I'd like to see all testing done by an outside agency. Once tests are taken, score them immediately and give the candidates their scores like they did in 1979. After all, this is the 21st Century, so why are we going backwards?
Agencies that test under civil service rules allow military points to be taken into consideration, but only ONCE. So if you were hired by a suburban department, you could use your military points to jump ahead, or if you did well enough, save them for promotion time. I know a guy who had that happen to him with a suburban department. He used his military points to get hired. Had he held onto them, he would have been hired 9 months later, but more importantly, he would have had them for the sergeant test. In his case, it would have made him.
In that frame of mind, ONE bite of the merit apple, including detective. But right now we have merit dicks who made merit sergeant and now have made merit lieutenant. Probably very nice people, but do they deserve the fast track? Definately NO. But this is Chicago, isn't it?
Merry Christmas to all
You guys are way off base on this. If the exams are so bogus, then why does Kline merit promote all of his friends etc. Why doesn't Kline just give all of his cronies the answers?
What planet are YOU fucking from?
Cline CAN"T get all his merit picks in because all the other political hacks have first dibs.
Sooooo, the police department goes around the 20-30% process by getting inside information, from the exams, to their clout babies.
This probably equals 40-50% merit promotions.
This is just one theory, there are probably other methods in effect too.
Got it??
Did you notice that Juarez got fired because he pissed hot! I've read some of his stuff and its hard to believe that any 7 year copper would have endured so much, encountered so much and done sooooooooo much in his short career. I'll also bet you he never turned in any of the allegedly crooked cops he worked with. No Prince of the City this guy. . . .
Karma + Juarez = MS
You guys are the biggest cry baby losers I have ever seen. Devine did not get the test answers, he did not cheat--he knows his job and works hard. Unlike you dumb fuck whiners who obviosly didn't do well on the test or you wouldn't be bitchen about it and calling it a conspiracy. Get a life losers!
Keep saying this punk. If this cluster ever hits the press, it will not go over the heads of the electorate the way you make it appear that it has gone over yours.
I love how many posts here are from people who purportedly have personal knowledge that he did not cheat. The only one who knows is him, whoever helped him and whoever he helped. And if he didn't, than its just him. So if you aren't him, I hope for his sake that you swallow.
OK, I'll start off by saying that I was promoted after waiting an additional three years for Dick to agree to fill a class. I was below 300 and did attend a study class and study myself and with groups fro about 2 hours a day.
OUR study class tried to hone into "certain" orders based on previous exams.
I have talked to some of the SME and SSME and have seen the test components sitting on their desk without any security. I really don't see how hard it would be for any of those peeople to give their friends the materials, tell them to make their own copy and SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IT.
Now you and I both know that that person can not resist bragging about having that level of clout and being proud about using it (MANN). They are using the system that allows them to use it. It sucks for everyone else, but it comes down to an elementary fact. IT IS THE BOSSES' FAULT. They condone it, and they allow it to happen.
The only legit test would be one that is designed and given by an outside entity, maybe a third party LE agency.
There is no honor or loyalty left on this job. Well at least there are a few who cling to those precepts, but they are on the way out becuase the suck holes, whiners and criers are being taken care of.
To those who are legit, please be patient, it is worth it and you will be better off allowing the "others" to fuck up on their own. You make it, do the job your way and maybe you can instill a little hope in someone in the next generation.
Anonymous said...
Why do you need to carry when retired. Those A.S.A's can't carry and they put more people in prison then 5 cops. Is it just cause your scared. Are you gonna play police? H.R. 218 was wrong.
12/24/2005 01:59:21 PM
A.S.A.'s put the people we arrest in prison. You obviously aren't a police or you would know you're talking out of your ass. I only have two things to say to you:
1. Fuck you!
2. Happy New Year
First of all, if you deny that certain people get the answers or are informed of the questions - you're dumb. The tests are approved by certain exempt members and their kids, bitches score well. But with that said, from the first day when you walked into the academy, and people were talking about their "phone calls," you should have realized that unless you know someone, this job will not be as rewarding if you did. Therefore, if you stayed on the job and now cry and whine, you're dumb.
I agree with the idea that one person should only get one merit appointment. But this approach will probably hurt us more than help us. These people have to get where they are going. If there is no more merit, then there will be alot more cheating (more than there already is).
No "merit" promotions whatsoever. Unless and until the City qives an acceptable and unequivocal definition for "merit" that is consistent with the definition found in the dictionary. Clout, rigged "secret" promotional processes and the almighty phone call be damned.
Both "merit" and "affirmative action" are only pretexts for the City promoting their favorites, most of whom are incompetents, sycophants and political hacks, regardless of ethnicity or gender. Oh, sure. A quarter to a third of the most deserving promotees somehow fall through the cracks. Even many of them had clout going for them.
You can be well-respected by your peers with a Mensa-eligible IQ and squadrols full of felony arrests to your credit. If you have a "brick" on you, you might as well forget about advancement. Ain't gonna happen!
The upper echelon of the CPD, indeed the CPD in general, has long been infiltrated by dull nitwits, even borderline morons, who are not even worthy of being police officers, let alone bosses.
Even the college requirements are mere "window dressing". (Perception always trumps reality on "da job") While I graduated from a respected, out-of-state university prior to my CPD appointment, I'll be the first to acknowledge that the academic credentials of some of the sharpest and most effective police officers ended with a high school diploma. If college is an asset and I believe it is, it should manifest itself in the performance of the police officer.
Standardized intelligence and psychological tests are a must as a screening device.
Politics are so deeply entrenched in CPD promotions and assignments that only an Act of God, aided by Ms. Brennan, Mr. Shakman and U.S. Atty. Fitzgerald has a chance at bringing the CPD kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.
Daley, his predecessors and his ultimate successor(s) will stoop to any level to preserve the status quo of patronage, mediocrity, nepotism, cronyism, and corruption.
You need look no further than the unmitigated arrogance of the Office of the Corporation Counsel. With an apparent straight face, the City has renewed efforts to free itself from the mandates of the Shakman Decree.
Don't you just want to vomit when Daley speaks of "the best and the brightest" for the CPD? Excellence and professionalism are grossly incompatible with "the Chicago Way". The City will fight meaningful reforms tooth and nail.
Apathy and divisiveness make us our own worst enemy.
Morale and esprit de corps are non-existent. While I can't condone "the first and the sixteenth" mentality of many, it's completely understandable. God help us!
to: 11:41.....you really hit it right on the head!
Bravo for the post of "college grad old-timer".
The CPD is a very sad joke.
Integrity and excellence are meaningless.
A few years ago they had one of the hispanic high ranking gold stars making the rounds at roll calls. Being a fiesty young P.O. , I suggested the obvious to him. why don't they alot every unit a certian # of merits and then poll the peers in rank and non-exempt supervisors to determine who s most deserving. His answer " Then it would be just a popularity contest." Appearantly some exempt boss who has never met you can make a better decision based on your chinaman's recommendation.
I wouldnt take a meritorious spot for triple the money. It makes me sick how all you ass kissing idiots try to get promoted. You have anyone and everyone from where ever making a phone for you.
Thats why this department is so messed up. Its turned into yuppy corporate ass kissing hoopla. Not a para military organization anymore at all.
How do you ass kissers look at yourelves in the mirror?
Don't give yuppies and corporate America a bad name. If the CPD had a bottom line, it would have filed for bankruptcy years ago.
You're full of shit (4:24). You'd take a meritorious promotion, who you kidding? I'd take one, God knows I'll never get offered though.
Whether you care to believe it or not, there are bright, proud and outstanding police officers who are more than capable and worthy of promotion without damn clout.
It's a matter of pride and professionalism. Certain officers, yourself included, find this incomprehensible. You are pathetic.
I was told to take the D test years ago with only 4 years on. I refused so 06:29 Im not full of shit. Most not all but most meritorious are idiot suck asses. If I want something Ill go get it myself. Im nobodys handpuppet. You and your type are the reason why this dept. sux.
Most of you educated ass kissers couldnt find your ass with two hands and a flashlight.
Yuppys make me wanna launch
Technically, you are full of shit. Not having taken the test, you cannot be made meritoriously. No one can be made without taking the test.
So sitting on the sideline like you are, knowing you cannot be promoted, it's easy to say you wouldn't take it.
Tell you what, you take a promotional exam and pass, even if you barely pass. Then tell me you'd turn down a promtion, THEN I'll believe you.
Happy New Year
One more thing, I was promoted, from the 1993 list, in rank order. I did make it on my own.
Again, Happy New Year.
No one can be made without taking the test.
Not true..Rizzi made LT without having taken the test. Just had a good lawyer.
OK, and Dignan was made lieutenant without taking a test. He was the city's choice to sell the process.
NOW, no one can be made without taking and passing the written portion. Hillard tried to make a lieutenant before he retired but had to recind it because the sergeant had not passed the written test.
11:41:22 am
"college grad old-timer"
Your comments are the most insightful on this blog site.
The Fix was in Bottom line.
A few random thoughts on the whole promotional testing process.
1. How come we do not receive the right answers with our test results. How is anyone suppose to learn from their mistakes if you can even get the correct answers to the test?
2. Why offer any exam that is based on hand writted answers. The whole department is automated, the test should be typed. Grade on material not presentation.
3. Why allow "invite only" study groups to exist. Nothing screams racism more than being "excluded" because I don't belong to your group. Aren't we all one group - CPD Officers trying to score well on a test and get promoted.
4. I agree with the majority - the meritorious process of this department is not about promoting the best and brightest, its about politics and owed favors.
The bottom line is your safety and well being - get your 20 years and retite happy and live to a 100.
Id turn it down in a heart beat. I dont want to be one of them. I dont want to be a controlled troll. My soul is not for sale. I collect a paycheck now and have a business I am proud of. When the court system and the city as well as this so called Police Dept. get rid of the corruption, maybe I will be a Cop again. But paper jumping, creative narrative writing goofs like you would put 2 rounds in their mothers back to get promoted. And then you will be an asshole more so then you are now!
Because I didn't want to study for the test, I called my clout, who got me the answers to the test.Imagine my surprise when I received a letter telling me "Congratulations, you are to start the Cook County Corrections Academy on 2 Jan 06." I called The Lithuanian American Police Assoc. (LAPA) to complain, but couldn't understand the guy that picked up the phone. What the fuck...
The Guy From the Next Block..
No more of later learning that an incompetent promotee with little or no actual field experience is the brother-in-law of Mr. Politician/police boss, etc. Under penalty of perjury, all candidates must submit sworn affidavits stating all relationships by blood or marriage to possible clout and political organizations.
If the promotee has a so-so record of field assignments, this info would set off possible red flags.
Understand, the single factor that someone is related to possible clout is meaningless. However, if he or she has been "sheltered" and spoiled in do-nothing paper shuffling jobs, there will be many questions to answer.
Promotions should go to working police officers. Hire the rest as clerks or meter maids.
It used to be that desk jobs went to veterans who previously served in active street duties. Now you check some desk crews, lock-ups and the Ivory Tower and find young, able-bodied men and women doing the inside stuff. Get their asses out into 007 and 011 like us other working coppers.
If you track some of these jerks, they'll be the bosses of tomorrow without a clue into handling themselves in high crime districts.
They command no respect whatsoever.
The integrity of legit promotions turns to shit as soon as the city rats have anything to do with it. They will use any subjective parts to sabotage the whole process with clout. Beware of anything they come up with that is subjective rather than objective. Remember the rigged performance ratings and oral boards. Everything they touch turns to shit and fraud. They'll even use race as an excuse to screw with results for their fraud.
Turns out that they screw with the best white, black and hispanic men and women just to get their people in.
Then when officers come up with any suggestions for reforms, the City says:
Oh, we'll do that...NEXT TIME!
If they had any shame, they would even avoid any appearance of impropriety. The city can't be trusted under any circumstances.
Chicago is as crooked as a corkscrew.
What about relationships by sperm?
Excellent point. B-J's can do wonders for a young lady's career.
However, she must be highly selective and discrete.
or a young man's career. ::cough cough RH cough cough::
5:25 pm: You still don't get it! Old timers got inside jobs to get off the street when they had enough. Today if you are tired or worn out, the place to be is on the street. No one forces you to work. Inside on the desk or the lockup, there is no way to avoid the work. So bosses have to draft the youngsters. Is it right--- no, but then again there are more dogs in the beat cars then ever before, and that's not right--either.
WILL SOMEONE KINDLY REMOVE THE EXAMSCAM ELEPHANT FROM THE CPD LIVING ROOM?
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