Responsibility (UPDATE)
At least one person was in custody in connection with an armed robbery following a pursuit by Chicago that began in one Northwest Side police district and ended in another Tuesday evening.
The pursuit began after a robbery in the 6300 block of West Diversey Avenue Tuesday evening, and included at least one crash involving two police vehicles, said Chicago Police News Affairs [...].
The chase began after 6 p.m. in the Grand Central District and ended a while later in the Jefferson Park District, police said.
Evidently, there was at least one termination order given, then countermanded by 1600X at least twice. This set off a lively discussion in our comment section, some of it flat out wrong. First up, if you've been involved in a pursuit lately, you'd notice a box at the bottom of the Pursuit Form for the exempt member re-authorizing the chase. Although rare, it has happened on occasions, the rare part being because a gold star is seldom close enough to make that sort of call on the fly. In this case, it appears 1600X was actually involved, so no problem there.
The only problem we see is the accident(s) during the chase. Any traffic crash is supposed to be an automatic termination. Period. There isn't much wiggle room in the order for that:
- GO03-03-01 III-C The continuation of a motor vehicle is prohibited whenever:
1.a pursued vehicle or pursuing Department vehicle is involved in any traffic crash in which there is a probability of personal injury.
NOTE: This isn't second guessing. This is the pointing out that a directive directly applicable to the situation at hand is available. How the Department handles it is another matter completely.
UPDATE: Word is there were kids were in the car. Given the history of the offender, kidnapping was a distinct possibility. Regardless of personal feelings about the XO and her history, reauthorizing the pursuit seems to be the correct call. These are split-second decisions people and the XO carries the entirely of this one...at least on paper. In front of the Traffic Review Board is a different story.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
54 Comments:
the chase gets called off when there is a probability of injury, not a possibility. The po's said they were fine. Chase on....
In this case, it appears 1600X was actually involved, so no problem there.
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1600X is ONLY A CAPTAIN.. NOT an exempt.
She also is the make-up lady at Macy's on her days off.
The XO is retiring at the end of the year. Not much is going to happen.
Want to talk responsibility? Talk about why the pursuit even started...a named offender and a theft investigative alert. Post the G.O. on pursuing a vehicle with those criteria...the reason the pursuit continued the way it did was because they made it sound like an on view armed robbery, vehicular hijacking, and kidnapping.
Scc, being there I can tell you my reason for continuing to chase. We believed this to be a car jacking turned kidnapping. There was no way we were going to let this guy harm those kids. Now we know they we his girls kids but at the time we didn't. So our split second decisions can be judged by many for hours,and days. It was still the right call.
016 copper
a pursued vehicle or pursuing Department vehicle is involved in any traffic crash in which there is a probability of personal injury.
The main part is "probability of personal injury," which is open to interpretation. 1600x doesnt care because she is retiring...
I may have less than 10 on, but if I crashed during the course of the pursuit of a violent offender, I would only want my brothers and sisters to catch the offender that much MORE! There used to be a time we were allowed to do our jobs, and put the shitheads in jail. Flight in a vehicle shouldn't be an automatic "ha ha I'm on glue!!!" from the shitheads. At some point, we get paid to remove violent and hurtful people from society for a while- not let them get away to hurt someone else. It's not about winning and losing, but if the good guys don't win, then the bad guys win. Tell me which is worse......
The balancing test is actually 'How did it end?' In this case OK....nuff said!
The key phrase of the order is "likely personal injury" If the accident didn't seem like there was personal injury then its fine.
Since we are setting the record straight, 1600X is not an "exempt" member. She is a Captain, plain and simple. Not a gold star. Was she appointed, yes. Is she a shakman exempt member, no. She is a unionized, bargaining unit captain, and therefore does not have the authority to re-initiate a chase.
SCC, no one thinks you are second guessing. Actually, this is an excellent example of the problems with this department right now and needs exposing. Don't apologize for pointing out things that you see wrong. You are correct, I have not done a pursuit form in quite some time. I had no idea that this box existed. Here is the question, did the department amend the order also, or just the form? It will be a point of research for me and the guys today. Thank you for pointing it out. I always believed that one reason this blog existed was to help us become more informed. This thread does just that. Thank you.
There was no robbery. Only a named offender in a robbery. Bogus chase.
You should be able to chase anything that runs...
If this Captain wasn't a female the bulk of comments would be about what a "big set of balls", what a "true leader", proud to serve "under his command" , " real intestinal fortitude"' ,,,yeah she s not a he, but as an old school retired sgt who who worked for her in 017 and to the end of my career in 019, I can say she was in many pursuits and actively engaged in police work more than any other boss in either district in the 90s and thru 2010. If that female Captain is still going strong in this weakened CPD then she is still leading by example and puts everything on the line despite all the negativity by the majority of weak links above and below...Capt you still have all the right stuff! God bless and hang in there. You will never look back in retirement with regrets, and trust me retirement is great! Retired sgt
Only time will tell,bet it will end just fine!
Well I have fond memories of some great chases when the police could be the police. I looked forward to a good chase and the reward at the end of it, but of course that was before cell phones. Ya the job used to be fun, but retirerment is better.
This incident illustrates what is wrong with this department. If people dislike someone else on the department they look for possible mistakes in that person's work and then tell everyone a false or exaggerated story. This was good police work plain and simple.
As always, a difficult situation in which someone makes a split second difficult decision and the debate and monday morning quarterbacking begins. Thank God there were not serious injuries or fatalities. These a holes who enage in fleeing the police should spend a lot of years in the slammer.
SCC take this down I know she's a dimwit but this is not right to play monday morning quaterback with the decision she made.
Why do Northside coppers worry about what's gonna happen all the time? It ended well. No one was hurt or killed right?
Good call...enough said
xo forced to retire at end of year
she'll be missed .
1600x made the right decision! Leave her alone!
Been involved in many chases over the years. Some called in some not.
Some ending good,some not so good.
The circumstances allowing a pursuit to continue must be carefully considered. More so then terminating one.
Not initiating a chase is the easy choice. Many first responders routinely and correctly make this choice and nothing more is heard about it.
Calling in a pursuit automatically starts a chain of notifications designed to fix blame on someone if anything goes wrong. The initiating officer knows it could be them but at some point the police must be the police.
In this case it seems that the involved officer made the correct call with the information he/she had. Car jacking is a robbery. Innocent kids in the vehicle is kidnapping.
As to the ranking supervisor that allowed the pursuit to continue under the circumstances given? Brass balls are appreciated.
Who knows what could or would have happened to those kids.
Seriously, I don't know this XO but I cannot believe there are officers calling her out for making a stand up decision. How many times are we infuriated when a supervisor calls off a chase. Yet here a supervisor does the complete opposite of what we would expect and people are bashing that decision. You need to either put aside your personal feelings about this XO in this case or see if you can get a set of neuticles.
im just happy someone had the balls to reauthorize it. maybe there is hope for this dept.
It's your money.
Do with it what you will.
With all the ball-less chicken bosses in upper management, it's great to see we still have a few leaders out there, and to 1600, thank you for standing behind us, supporting us and allowing this to continue.
It's always easy to sit back and judge, and to the do nothing's, you would not know this but when your in the moment you do your best.
Maybe 1600 could teach the rest of these useless ass bosses a thing or two about motivating people and standing behind your employees.
You will be missed no doubt.
My only comment is: why would you make all of this shit available for public scrutiny? Seems like you are doing a disservice to all the officers involved.
Makeup lady at MACY's. Now THATS funny!
If a boss is going to actually grow a set for once Bravo. I have experienced a termination request by a Sgt at an on-view drive by Homicide years ago that was just plain cowardice and complete silence by the then W/C.
Battery charges for the offenders involved in that chase. Is it still worth it.
Well lets see, I've had some some lengthy pursuits and here is the problem I see. The only and only problem is the General Order its self. That thing is ambiguous and so left open to interpretation its ridiculous. The order states that a chase will be terminated when a department vehicle is involved in a crash but also states when there is the probability of personal injury. The biggest crock of shit is the balancing test. What maybe be right to you might not be right to me and vice versa. The whole order is written in such a way that it absolutely indemnifies the city and puts the decisions squarely on the shoulders of individual officers. It's left to interpret, its very gray. So to end this I just wanna say that if the coppers who started it went home that night feeling like they did the right thing whether actually right or wrong, who are we to judge. We weren't there. Good job guys sometimes we still need to show we can fuck shit up and catch the bad guys.
Anonymous said...
Why do Northside coppers worry about what's gonna happen all the time? It ended well. No one was hurt or killed right?
8/30/2012 11:03:00 AM
**************
You really don't know why? I heard about a traffic stop out south and was instantly reminded of how they were done back then. If you addressed the democrats up north in the same fashion, there would be beefs that would last for years and the time off you'd receive would be in months, not days. That's why coppers up north worry about such things because they all beef and some twit takes the beef and runs with it.
Now go cuss some southsider out and revel in your freedom to do so, in 20 or 30 years the southside will catch up and it will have to stop.
Capt you still have all the right stuff! God bless and hang in there. You will never look back in retirement with regrets, and trust me retirement is great! Retired sgt
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You must have been one of her pets. Having been one of the less beloved persons under her I can tell you it wasn't that great. Don't start that you must have been a dog shit either, I never have been a dog.
Cousin hit cousin in his head and took his money . I wouldn't call this a robbery . The officers knew exactly what happened and they still chased this goof. They knew his name and address and this was a bullshit robbery .25 minute chase and nine vehicle damaged and and you got was a simple battery . Great work guys great work.
Everyone wants to be the real police, do the right thing and catch the bad guys. The problem is being sued for doing your job and the very real threat of punitive damages that can destroy you financially. This is especially true for supervisors. And you will stand alone.
The only way I would get in a chase is if there was a box of Cuban Cohibas in the trunk that were stored at 70 degrees and 70 percent humidity. Amy Rule could be stuffed in there and I would yawn and take a nap. Now if those cigars were going to get away.... look out!
ok my opinion... it all worked out. coppers crashed but are all ok. could it have been worse? yes... and it could have also been better. People here looking back with all the "what ifs" are doing nothing but acting like a bunch of civil attornys. we hate when they disect everything we do so why do it to ourselves? I think it was great police work by the blue shirts. It was great leadership by the white shirts in having FAITH AND TRUST in the officers in pursuit. If 1600 is a good commander he will ensure that all blue shirts are found to be in compliance when the review board comes around. Ive been in several pursuits and have had them result in crashes of squad cars or personal cars. If you did everything in good faith and the boss let it go then you will be fine. If you keep going after it was legit terminated then you will have a problem... a spar, reprimand or at most one day. This case sounds great and all involved will be fine. The blue shirts are covered because an exempt member let it go. Even if there was a crash and the exempt said to continue chasing then its on the exempt. also, did the pursuing officers know at the time of the chase that coppers had an accident??? or did the notification of the accident to oemc happen after the bad guy was in custody and the air was cleared? we dont know. either way, all blue shirts involved will be fine in the end.. trust me. even the review board people have brains... they know when good police work was done and they didnt operate recklessly. If you acted like a goof then you will get hammered.. if you are doing police work then you will be fine. good work by all involved.
Cousin hit cousin in his head and took his money . I wouldn't call this a robbery . The officers knew exactly what happened and they still chased this goof. They knew his name and address and this was a bullshit robbery .25 minute chase and nine vehicle damaged and and you got was a simple battery . Great work guys great work.
8/30/2012 05:23:00 PM
Exactly!
Anonymous said...
With all the ball-less chicken bosses in upper management, it's great to see we still have a few leaders out there, and to 1600, thank you for standing behind us, supporting us and allowing this to continue.
It's always easy to sit back and judge, and to the do nothing's, you would not know this but when your in the moment you do your best.
Maybe 1600 could teach the rest of these useless ass bosses a thing or two about motivating people and standing behind your employees.
You will be missed no doubt.
8/30/2012 02:43:00 PM
Did you mean ... 1600X ??
1600X did more police work 2 days ago then during her entire career. She is a merit hack and has NO CLUE how to lead men into battle. All hair and nail polish. This chase should have never been approved from jump street. Imagine your RDO driving from dinner with your family and you get hit by the offenders car or a responding PO's car. For what? 2 douchenbag counsins in a fight over property? Now imagine your wife and kids are killed. FUCK that. completly unexceptable. The Chase policy is clear,and it was violated. Not worth it. 1600x is a joke. Look up her arrest stats.
Ok it was a bullshit case, but no one told anyone that on Zone 1 or at the Airport, all we were told was that it was an armed robbery offender. So quit crying.
If a boss is going to actually grow a set for once Bravo. I have experienced a termination request by a Sgt at an on-view drive by Homicide years ago that was just plain cowardice and complete silence by the then W/C.
If it isn't shots fired at th e police or P.O. shot why chase? yes I know it's our job, but they don't want us chasing and have made it painfully obvious the consequences when things go wrong, so protect each other and abide by the order; let the citizen clamour for the order to change, then chase..
to the sad sack that thinks this old sgt was one of the good Capts pets...LOL at your comment...We disagreed so darn much on her management style I transferred out...but her work ethic was very spot on when she hit the street, and I respected the manner, in which she always backed her crew. By the time we worked 019, she was like a breath of fresh air in a very stale and toxic district. She also had compassion for other people, and so we agreed to disagree sometimes but tried to really back each other and the real police as much as possible in the crumbling Cpd. I hate Monday morning quarterbacks who never catch a cr# just because they never were the real police and never will. Been in several squad accidents job related, not found at fault by review board. No "Pet!" But tks for the laughter here Now go pick on someone under 60 as I am working on being a kinder person.
Anonymous said...
Cousin hit cousin in his head and took his money . I wouldn't call this a robbery . The officers knew exactly what happened and they still chased this goof. They knew his name and address and this was a bullshit robbery .25 minute chase and nine vehicle damaged and and you got was a simple battery . Great work guys great work.
The 2 idiots in 25 were told this was bull shit but had to lock him up anyway. Why? because they think they are smarter than everyone else.
Where's the ASA name for approval/rejection. Where is Det. name who handled the job. Nothing but traffic violations on the arrest report. Maybe someone will finally reign in these idiots
Armed robbery offender
Possible car jacking
3-4 squads crashed, 3-4 personal vehicles crashed for a bunch of tickets and a B.S. case that would have been RWOC
Anonymous said...
Cousin hit cousin in his head and took his money . I wouldn't call this a robbery . The officers knew exactly what happened and they still chased this goof. They knew his name and address and this was a bullshit robbery .25 minute chase and nine vehicle damaged and and you got was a simple battery . Great work guys great work.
8/30/2012 05:23:00 PM
Another monday morning quarterback. it must be wonderful to have all the answers...
Good job to the old timer on 1622 that day.
Plus, this guy entered the airport. Who knows what this guy could have done.
Anyway you look at it the chase was boneheaded! How many innocent people could of benn killed,if this was a bank robbery who cares the bank is 100% insured! Don't risk others,and a lawsuit loss of job-pension-freedom chasing like this!
Look up her arrest stats? Don't know her but I do know if she is eligible for retirement a large part of her career was prior to computerized statistics. Do you really think someone went back through the many paper arrest reports prior to your birth and entered them into IClear?
Aren't we all on the same team???? Seriously people, its police work, and finishing what you started.....It was a split second decision, (which we all have made) and I do not know who intiated, terminated or let it go on, but, GOD bless balls, and trying to do the right thing!
Don't take that tennis ball from behind the gas pedal until you hear: 10- 1 then pull it out and drop the Mic until someone ACTUALLY sees that their OK.
Then put your ball back until. downtown grow a couple of pair's?
If car chases are terminated because they are too "dangerous", then why has no one ever terminated any of my foot chases of a man with a gun. In fact why not terminate any action I take as a police officer that might be "dangerous". News flash... being "the police" was, is and will always be dangerous.
STOP ALLOWING PUSSY ASS, BOOT LICKING, MERITORIOUS HACKS WITH NO POLICE EXPERIENCE WHAT SO EVER TO WRITE GENERAL ORDERS!!!!
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